Posted by: Christian | August 2, 2009

Karzai and the Ismaili and his AC/DC Warlord Son

So Karzai wants the Ismaili vote. Why not? So who does he go to? I would go to the Agha Khan, as his network is a genuinely benevolent and effective NGO. But the Agha Khan and his network is not in the business of endorsing candidates. And Karzai needs someone who can get out the vote. And I mean “get.” So who does he go to? NYT with the answer:

Several thousand Ismaili men, women and children gathered from four northern provinces on Friday to meet their spiritual leader, Sayed Mansoor Nadiri, in the Kayan Valley before Mr. Karzai’s appearance. Many came over the mountain passes on foot and stayed overnight sleeping under trees, in gardens and in nearby villages to receive Mr. Karzai on Saturday.

Mr. Nadiri declared that the Ismailis had decided to give their support to Mr. Karzai for the Aug. 20 presidential election, and the people agreed without demur.

That’s Nadiri, linking arms with Karzai:

Sayyed Mansoor Nadiri and Karzai

It’s pretty simple to the NYT:

Yet the Ismailis, an impoverished, remote community that suffered intensely under Taliban rule, will almost certainly follow their spiritual leaders’ direction.

“We, the Ismaili community, through our council and our political allies have chosen Hamid Karzai as our candidate and consider him better than the other candidates,” Mr. Nadiri said at a news briefing for journalists in Kayan. He praised Mr. Karzai as having brought democracy to Afghanistan and making his cabinet reflect many ethnicities. In tribal fashion, Mr. Nadiri hosted the gathering, feeding several thousand of his people for two days as they gathered to see Mr. Karzai.

Spiritual leader of a limited area? Sure. But don’t believe for a second that his authority derives solely from religious legitimacy, nor that he is the only power broker in the Ismaili community [note added: just to be clear, I’m referring to the area north of the Salang, I’m well aware he carries less weight the further you drive/walk in any direction]. First of all, who isn’t a Sayyed/Sayyid/Sayid or a Hoja/Khoja or an Ishan/Ishon these days? There is material, social and “physical” incentives behind the power of people like this who rise to the top of the “religious notables” pyramid. They may control resources, dispense patronage, marry strategically and/or physically intimidate people.

For an example of the last point, meet Sayyid Mansoor Nadiri’s son, Sayyid Jafar Naderi:

…his response when asked why he left New Jersey to return to Afghanistan and become a warlord: “Because I can f#*% and kill anyone I want.”

Wow. Points for honesty.

So what does Naderi’s son do, beyond perpetuating warlord stereotypes? And besides allying with — at various times — the Communists, the Mujahideen and Rashid Dostum’s crew? Well, I saw this a long time ago, and it came to mind immediately. Just fast forward to 1:32 of this video. Trust me, it will be the mostest ZOMG moment of your week. And yes, I think that all warlords should have AC/DC’s “Highway to Hell” as a soundtrack.

“We deal with both sides in Afghanistan”….fence-sitters, par excellence.

You can get all the dirty facts in this US government report (including harassment of the Agha Khan Development Network) and from The Ministry of State Failure. And for a laugh, this reputable Canadian online alternative offensive-as-possible magazine (PDF) has the story (sort of) on how he may have sent a demo tape to a punk band back in the 1980s.

God knows what Mansoor’s son is up to these days. But I barely even know what the father is doing. According to SayedKayan.com, he is doing alright. Good to hear. BTW, I will pay whatever it takes to get Mansoor’s shirt. Could someone who is up north ask if he (a) still has it in his closet and if  (b) his son still “F@#*s and kills anybody he wants”?

Sayed Mansur Nader Khan Kayan

And don’t mistake this post as me taking a shot at the Imailis. I’m a fan of the Agha Khan Development Network and I’ve liked every single Ismaili that I’ve met. I just haven’t met Sayed Jafar Naderi yet.

[Added August 21st in resonse to comments]:

Dear readers,

I have not deleted any of my comments. I have deleted comments by people pretending to be me. I have also deleted all the spam. And the racist comments about black men have also been removed (Ugandans or any other kind). And any comments on anybody’s sexuality have also been deleted.

However, you are welcome to tell me that I’m wrong and an idiot, and to explain why.

All the abusive comments are from two IPs in Houston and Toronto. In the future, any comments from these IPs will automatically go to moderation before appearing. If you are in these IP ranges and are not one of the racist homophobes who have been impersonating me, I apologize. I will check the moderation queue for legit comments.

As for the person in southern Ontario, do you realize that you are not anonymous? You may be anonymous for me, but not for the police. You should really read the latest articles on how to be anonymous online. If you threaten me, I will contact the Ontario Provincial Police. They process IP warrants quite quickly in Canada.

As for the people who have make constructive comments, thank you.

Regards,
Christian


Responses

  1. Thanks for the post – both entertaining AND informative (although I’ll forever feel inadequate whenever I listen to AC/DC’s “Highway to Hell”).
    I also appreciate your observation about authority being derived from multiple sources/methods.
    Good work.

  2. Agree with Todd… great post, thanks! From a socio-cultural perspective, have you guys seen anything that discusses connection between the Ismaili populations in Kayan and those in Pakistan? Geneologically or politially? Do the Ismailis in PAK respond to Naderi’s guidance as well? Trying to get a feel for how far reaching Naderi’s influence is….

  3. The Thunder Run has linked to this post in the blog post From the Front: 08/03/2009 News and Personal dispatches from the front and the home front.

  4. As an Isma’ili Muslim myself, I can respond to Jess’s question:

    I’m sorry to say this (and I am a big fan of the NY Times), but the author of the Times article has misled his readers through his semantics. Here’s a breakdown of our spiritual hierarchy:

    There are millions of Shia Isma’ili Muslims all over the world. Concentrations are in Afghanistan/Tajikistan, South Asia (including India/Pakistan), East Africa, North America (including Canada/US), and Australia/New Zealand.

    Within the Ismai’ili demographic are two subgroups — Bohra and Nizari. The majority of the world’s Isma’ilis are Nizari (including me, including the constituents Karzai went to meet last week, and including Nadiri).

    All Nizaris (including Nadiri, he’s nothing special) look to their Imam for guidance on matters of faith. (Imam with a capital I is different from imam in Sunni theology, which most commonly refers to an elder at a local mosque who leads prayers and is seen as a pillar of that local community.) Think of this Imam as a sort of Pope, except the Catholic Pope is elected by his Cardinals, while the Imam is selected by the previous Imam through a chain of genealogy and heredity that starts with the Prophet Muhammad himself (may peace be upon him).

    The current Imam of the Isma’ili Nizari Muslims is the Aga Khan. Go to Wikipedia and look up his title, and you’ll learn more about the man himself. Again, all Nizaris, including Nadiri, look to the Aga Khan for spiritual guidance. The only “spiritual leader” in our doctrine is the Imam. No one else.

    So perhaps Nadiri is a local organizer, a pillar of his local community. He is certainly no spiritual leader, and I can say with almost perfect certainty (and that’s only because I haven’t lived in Afghanistan myself) that his reach or influence does not extend beyond the parameters of his country. Our Isma’ili brothers and sisters in neighboring Pakistan definitely have their own local community leaders, but none of these leaders should be referred to as “spiritual leaders.” That title is reserved for one person only, to whom all Nizari Isma’ilis affirm their dedication.

  5. Kudos Rizwan- excellently written! It is so wonderfully refreshing to read an explanation that is compassionate, respectful and educational. This is the Islam that I believe in, one that promotes education and dialogue.

    “Seek first to understand, then to be understood.” -Dr. Wayne Dyer

  6. Thank you Rizwan, I appreciate you taking the time to provide a response. I understand your comments about local influence stopping at country borders, however I wonder if this is true for eastern Afghanistan/western Pakistan where the administrative borders are not even really recognized by the indigenous peoples there. This may be further complicated by the tribal lines that tie the peoples of these areas. Anyone know if the Ismailis in Afghanistan are related to the Ismailis in the Federally Administered Tribal Areas?

  7. As an Isma’ili Muslim myself, I concur with Rizwan.
    As far as Ismaili’s are concerned every country has their own council with their own jurisdiction,under which there are regional councils.
    Jess mentioned ”administrative borders are not even really recognized by the indigenous peoples there” that may be true of Non-Ismailis but as far as Ismaili’s are concerned they mostly follow the guidance from their National Council, these Councils has been there for decades and they know what villages and towns are under their jurisdiction even though politically lines are blurred.
    “Are Ismailis in Afghanistan are related to the Ismailis in the Federally Administered Tribal Areas? ” Some of them are ethnically related and as far as family is concerned maybe few. Ethnically I believe in FATA area they are mostly Pashtuns (Pathan) and Punjabis.
    Ismaili’s are a diaspora spread in 30 countries, you will find Arab’s in Syria, Persians in Iran, Sindhi’s and Gujrati’s in India, Uyghur’s in Xinjiang province in western China not to mention other ethnic groups in different countries of Central Asia and even some in Russian Federation.

  8. I am also an Ismaili, and i concur, this article is very well written. (But yes, Rizwan is right, Nadiri is not a spiritual leader) but that does not detract from your piece at all. I look forward to reading more from you :)

  9. To Aisha and Jess — thanks for your responses, and to Amin and Iqbal — thank you for your input as well.

    Now, for a moment of shameless advertising:

    http://reconsideringir.blogspot.com

  10. I believe Rizwan has offered a good explanation or rather a worthwhile clarification. Nadiri is NOT a spiritual leader as there is only ONE central authority in the Nizari fold and that is the Aga Khan who does not involve himself in politics and so any decisions by Nadiri are for his flock as a secular “commander’ but outside any kind of spiritual dictate…

  11. This rings a sort of bell. Back in the 80s I saw an ITN (Independent Television News UK) frontline report by the journalist and presenter Sandy Gall which among other things featured a young mujahideen leader who’d abandoned his university studies (Chemistry at Bradford ?) to lead his clan against the Soviets. He’d been a denim-clad metal fan at Uni and drove Gall towards the battles in a battered 4×4 with ‘Highway to Hell’ on the stereo.

    Is this guy a copycat or is it something about metal ?

  12. Just sharing what I have received…

    “..The guy claiming to be Ismaili leader, Sayed Mansur Nadiri and his son Sayed Jafer Nadiri may not be the followers of H.H. The Aga Khan.

    These guys are nothing but warlords and they change their alliances as per need.

    Please do not confuse them to be part of the Ismaili world that is loyal to the Aga Khan. As a matter of fact they are against the Imam and have killed our Ismaili brothers in not so distant past…..”

    As usual do your own research. Here is one link that you could lookup,

    http://www.unhcr.org/refworld/publisher,USCIS,,,414ede3c4,0.html .

    If you find information to the contrary please do share with the rest of us.

  13. hello zeenie, thanks for the link.

  14. According to the article (can’t verify authenticity) from the UNHCR , http://www.unhcr.org/refworld/country,,USCIS,,AFG,4562d8cf2,414ede3c4,0.html , it states that the Naderi family refused to submti to the Aga Khan’s authroity over the Ismailis int he region and, in fact, Naderi’s supporters and his ‘regime’ has pressurized and even harassed local Ismailis into following Naderi’s leadership. Fromt he article, it seems that Naderi has a strong following in Afghanistan as a spiritual leader and his followers choose to follow his guidance over the Aga Khan’s, contrary to Rizwan’s comments above.

  15. I see what you mean. How much, I wonder, is real choice, and how much is, as you put it, pressure and harassment?

  16. After writing my previous post I did some more look-ups and found a couple more articles. Not sure how ‘scholarly’ they are.

    http://www.ismaili.net/Source/mumtaz/behsud/kayan.html

    http://ewhawoman.or.kr/down/data/0211414-Hafizullah%20EMADI.pdf

    This is my understanding of the situation.
    The Nanderi family were patrons of the Imams or quivalent ot Mukhis int heirarchy since centuries. As was the case in displaced regions such as Syria, Central Asia, India etc. the Imams trusted specific families to look after the welfare of the jamat in the remote regions/tribes and mainly to administer over the spiritual tithes collected on behalf of the Imamat. So instead of being appointed a Mukhi of a region, you were designated by way of your lineage; If you were the trustee, your son would become the trustee since your family had gained the trust of the tribe over generations. Thus Mansoor Naderi oversaw the jamat which his family had been doing on behalf of the Imamat for a few generations.

    During the Russian occupation (70-80s), the Naderi’s became sort of ‘warlord’ freedom fighters. In fact there is a BBC video on the son of Mansoor Naderi who was a famous Ismaili warlord who did an interview and who professied his allegiance to the Aga Khan and stated that only if the Imam called for his people to back out of the war then he would back out – Basically, a way to invole the Imam in the local politics of the area and to associate the Imam with the milita linkages that wer epresent in the Ismaili region.

    I believe the Naderi clan called upon the Imam but since the Imamat policy has never been to interfere in the political arena and especially not to associate with illicit organizations, Hazar Imam began to distance his ties with this family in the reigon, and in 2002 when the climate was right, Hazar Imamat began appointing his own Mukhis and estanblishing stronger and tighter instituions.
    Meanwhile, Mansoor Nadheri had already established his owen ‘Naderi’ JK and started receiving the tithes to fuel his warlord activities. I believe this JK still exists today in addition to the Imamat JKs and strong Imamat insittituions in the region.

    It appears that Naderi has his own following and they try to even prevent AKDN aid to minimize the poisitive influence of the Imamat in the reigon. I still beleive that the Imamat has a stronger influence over the majority of the community in this Afghan region. The Imamat has dealt with these threats ove rimposition of authority etc. over its colorful histroy and Im’m sure Hazar Imam is keenly aware of how to mitigate the challenges.

    This is the current situation as I see it.

  17. Excellent work Hanif.

    Thank you for your research and post.
    I went thru both your links to give a gist:

    1.History of ‘Naderi’ family thru few generations (intriguing story) their forefathers were appointed leaders (because of Afghan socio-cultural situation) and instead of leading,developing and protecting, how in the pursuit of greed and power they created an internecine feud and have caused rift in Ismaili’s and may have started his on little cult.

    2.Much more broad and encompassing, 28 pages of pdf describing social cultural and religious issues including women’s issues with the backgound of political and ethnic rivalries and how women have been suppressed in the Afghan society and what changes and development is taking place as far as Ismaili women are concerned in the tribal areas of both Afghanistan and Pakistan.

  18. Thanks, Amin. Your summary is exactly to the point of what I was trying to convey in a long-winded way!

    After learning about this situation and this Naderi guy, I have a much stronger regard for the way the Imams including (the current Aga Khan) have led and overseen such a far flung and diverse community. We have really come far in spite of the centuries of barriers to reaching our Imam, which even persists today as we see in Aghanistan! Those of us who live in areas of religious freedom, free from oppression should feel really blessed.

    As an Ismailis, this situation has also shed light on the fact that there is enormous faith and strong allegiance by the global Ismaili community in over 25 countries toward our One True Hazar Imam Shah Karim Aga Khan IV.

    In spite of the political upheaval, rebellion, and ethnic rivalries the Ismaili minority has faced in remote and fragile areas, it is the Imam’s guidance, authority which has helped us stay unitied today.

    Insha Allah, the Ismailis of Afghanistan will not stray away from the True path and be blessed with benevolence of their True Hazar Imam.

    Insha Allah, the Global Ismaili Jamat will continue to love and obey the Only one who posesses the Noor to light our hearts daily.

    Peace to my Ismailis brothers and Sisters!

    HK

  19. Kudos to Christian for yet another informative post. I always enjoy reading your blog.

    While it is true that the Kayans and their counterparts in other regions of Afghanistan derive their authority from many different and at times contrasting sources, it is also true that amongst the Shias, much of local influence is religion based. In central Afghanistan for example, up until recently the Sayeds were simultaneous spiritual, clan, political and social leaders, revered in life and even more in death. They Sayeds collected (still do) annual tax aka khooms, in return for “spiritual” guidance for the locals. So much so that people with 5 daughters had to “give one away” to a Sayed in exchange for their blessing.

    I am not fully aware of the Ismaili and Shia religious hierarchy in India and in the West but in Afghanistan the Sayeds, especially ones who can prove affiliation with or trace their lineage back to some “important saint”(the Kayans, for example) get to manage all the affairs of their community, including spiritual leadership.

    And yes, points for his blunt honesty. Because he and company could and can f#*% and kill anyone I want in their sphere of influence – much thanx to the blind obedience of the followers.

    @ Hanif;
    As a non-Ismaili narcissist, can I have a share of the peace you have wished for your Ismaili brothers and sisters. C’mon, we All need peace.

  20. *they want

  21. hehe – Absolutely, peace for one and all my friend!

    @AfghanAtheist
    The peace I was asking for my Ismaili brothers and sisters was, of course, in the context of what we have been discussing in this blog, which is the unrest suffered within the Ismaili community in Afghanistan from the regimes of tribal warlords and other warring factions.

    It also brings to light the unrest and persecution that our religious minority has suffered at various times in our history in various parts of the world.

    So, I can’t give you a share for this hope of peace I wish for my Ismaili brothers and sisters, but I do wish for you and everyone else out there much Peace and happiness.

  22. Oh, and one last vote for Peace seeing as we have an “Afghan Atheist” on this blog…Peace to all the Atheists (Afghan or Not) who may be suffering in this world due to their personal convictions and beliefs…here here

  23. In spite of the “grip” that Naderi and his croonies might have in the region, it is important to note that the Nizari Ismailis who follow the Aga Khan and receive his direct guidance, have begun to establish their institutions and congregations in Afghanistan quite well.

    This article speaks of recent developments of the Ismaili community under the influence and leadership of their legitimat Spiritual guide and Imam, His Highness Aga Khan IV (who Ismailis refer to as Hazar Imam).

    http://www.theismaili.org/cms/507/First-purposebuilt-Jamatkhana-opens-in-the-Ishkashim-region-of-Afghan-Badhakhshan

  24. {abusive language removed}, I just wana say if there wasn’t Naderies I assure you there wasn’t any ismaili in Afghanistan.

    Naderies Zindabad Zindabad Zindabad.
    [abusive language about Khojas removed]

  25. As a Nizari Ismaili in Afghanistan, i support the points of friends that Naderis are tribal warlord, who have been keeping themselves as influential spiritual leaders.
    But one should know that Mansoor Naderi is more a political rather than spiritual, though his followers in Kayan obey him as a sacred representative of Imam. But politically, there are large number of Nizari Ismailis who do not follow Naderis. Like the Hazara Ismailis in Behsud have direct guidance from the Ismaili Councils rather than the political chain of Naderis.
    I as an Ismaili think that Naderi has been trying to remain influential in the mass illiterate population. He opposes the Councils appointed by the Int’l Ismaili body because these councils are threat to his political power.

  26. Salaam Brother Qiamuddin,

    My warmest greetings to you, I hope and pray Allah’s rehmat be upon you and your loved ones.

    Javed, thank you for your insight.

    Khuda Hafiz

  27. If you know anyone living in Kayan, please call him! You will be told that the people was gathered by the saying that Aga Khan is coming to visit them.

    Naderi just wants to be at the winner’s side and he thinks that karzai will be the winner because the all media are telling us that Karzai will win.

  28. او بيچاره ها، شما ها پست تر از سگ استيد. سيد منصور نادری شما را سگ درازه اش هم قبول نمی کند. شما از حسد ترکيده برويد

    زنده باد سيد منصور نادری

  29. Kayan News:

    http://khurasan.wordpress.com/about/

  30. If Naser Khusraw, Hasan Sabah, were spritual leaders, Naderi is a spritual leader as well.

  31. با عرض سلام خدمت خواننده گان خردمند این سایت

    ثانی درمورد نظرات ارائه شده راجع گردهمای کیان و جناب سیدمنصور نادری نظرات شخص نویسنده بوده که به هیچ عنوان از آدرس دفاتر آغاخان درافغانستان نماینده گی نمیکند وهیچ احدی این حق را ندارد که زمینه اظهار نظرکند زیرا مسئولین ادارات انکشافی آغاخان به اساس قوانین نافذه موسسات خیریه وغیره درافغانستان فعالیت دارد که درامورات داخلی یک کشور هیچکونه دخالت نداشته بلکه این حق مردم افغانستان است که خود آزادانه درانتخاب زعیم آینده شان تصیمم قاطعانه بادرنظرداشت مسئولیت که دربرابر این وطن دارند اتخاذ نمایند
    اینجاتب کارمند بانک قرضه های کوچک آغاخان درافغانستان هستم ومیدانم که ادارات امامتی درمورد انتخابات هیچ نظرنداشته که به همگان هویداست ومن هم نمیخواهم درزمینه اظهار نظرنمایم
    یک موضوع دگر از صحبت بالای محبوبیت محترم الحاج سیدمنصور نادری دربین تمام مردم جامعه است که یک موضوع کاملا روشن است
    حمایت همه جانبه این مردم شریف درهمیشه بیانگر محبوبیت شان دربین تمام مردم وبرعکس ارادت مردم به ایشان است زیرا اگر صداقت وراستی سیدمنصورنادری ومحبت که نسبت به مردم دارد نباشد چیزی دگر نمیتواند چنین اجتماعات خودجوش را سازماندهی کند .
    مردم ما بسیار هوشیار وبادرک همه جانبه از صلح وثبات درکشور حمایت نموده وتنها طرح های سیدمنصور نادری باعث نجات این کشور ازبحران است

  32. او کوس مادر ها، اگر سید منصور نادری نمیبود زن ها و ناموس شما را به ممالک عربی فروخته میشود. ای زنک شما خواهجه ها را گایوم که در بدل یک مقدار پول نا چیز همچون افعان های کوس مادر ها را در ضد سید منصور میسازین
    خاندان همه شما را خر بیگایه
    اولاد های کوس مادر
    اولد های حرامی

  33. Dear All,

    Yes, Sayed Mansoor Naderi as our Spritual Leader same as Hasan Sabah and Naser Khusraw who were leaders of their time.

    Sayed Mansoor Naderi has fought ages for the right of Afghan Ismailies.

    It is not fair to forget his favors done for us.

  34. Visit the following links and know about his services to Afghanistan:

    http://www.sayedkayan.com
    http://www.sayedkayan.wordpress.com
    http://www.nupa.org.af
    http://www.hujat.net

  35. دوستان عزیز

    لطفا درهنگام نوشتن نظر عفت قلم را درنظرداشته ازکلمات زشت ودشنام که نماینده گی از شخصیت نویسنده میکند جدااجتناب نمایئد
    همیشه دربحث های خود کوشش کنید که منطقی دلایل واضح داشته باشید

  36. سيد منصور تو پير و رهبر استی
    به ما بيچاره گان تاج سر استی

  37. http://www.sayedkayan.com

  38. Hanif, I dont know where are you from? if you are a khoja then no doubt that you a [insults edited]

    Yaya, I hope you are not Yaya Beza. We Afghans are having such strong believe in our religious that for 1400 years we never seen any of the holy Imams but our faiths were getting stronger day by day. That was Naderies who survived the Imailies in Afghanistan my please come to talk face to face if you need further information about Naderies.

    Javed, Khojas are Ismailies of Cash, they never think about Din Spritualism, as you know world is created for Imailies, it is not to enjoy with money or.. Khojas became ismaili only 40-50 years ago but we Afghans are ismaili from the time of Hakim Nasir Khisro,

    Dear all, as I heard Mulna Hazir Imam instructed in recent FARMAN that in future Ismailies should start pray according to Shariyat Mohammady you will see in near futur.

    H.H Aga khan is not president of a country, he is not a general Manager, that the way khojas are thinking but remember that this is Qaim-ul-Qiyamat Imam never says anything to any single murid coze time of judgement not teaching. I hope you understand.

    Hussain Ali, Khurasan, Freshta, Hadi and Suliman. Thank you very much for your support. Yea 2 days ago I checked no body was supporting us today I really happy you guys are awak.

    Regards,
    Qiamuddin Ahmadi

  39. جای نهایت تاسف است که شما دوستان چنین نظرات عاری ازحقیقت وحسادت آمیز که باعث ایجاد تفرقه بین مردم متدین و.بادیانت اسماعیلیه میگردد ، تحریر میدارید .

    باید گفت که شما دشمنان مردم ما هستید

  40. Dear Oppositions,

    All of you may have observed the power of Sayed Mansoor Naderi for the last past years. No one can beat Sayed Mansoor.

    You know, when he was one of the condidates for National Assembly, Hazir Imam sent 1 million USD via National Council for him to spend in the election compaign, but instead this council gave this amount to the Election office to remove Sayed Mansoor’s name from the list. Still that did not work.
    You guys tried your most, but failed everytime and hopefully and Inshallah you are failed and “Ro Seyah” forever.

    It would be better for you guys to stop barking like a DOG.

    نصیب حضرت منصور دوران
    الهی فتح و اقبال و ظفر باد
    خدا یا دشمنانش در همه جاه
    ذلیل و سرنگون دربدر باد

  41. هیچ کس نمیتواند حقیقت را کتمان کند
    اگر خواننده ونویسنده این نظرات اسماعیلیه هستند خود خبردارند که لطف امام زمان بالای خاندان نادری تا چه حداست که همیش حضور مبارک از ایشان بخوبی یادنموده که دوستان میتواند به فرامین مبارک مراجعه نمایند دریکی ازفرامین مبارک حضور حضرت امام چنین ارشاد فرموده است ( بنابر خدمات شایسته سید نادرشاه کیانی ,سید شاه ناصر نادر ، سیدمنصور نادری وسید سعدی نادری به حیث وزیر امام مفتخر گردیده است ) دریکی ازفرامین مبارک که خودم شنیدم حضور مبارک ارشاد فرموده است ( تاکنون هر آنچه که خاندان نادری انجام داده است مورد تائید امام است ) همه اینها سخنانیست که دوستان میتواند با درنظرداشت آن نظریات خویش را تحریر نماید
    ثانیا دوستان خبردارند که درجریان دیدار امام زمان درتاجکستان یگانه کسی را که حضور مبارک امام به حضور پذیرفت سید جعفرنادری بود این مثال های است که ما باید آنرا درنظرداشته باشیم زمانیکه حضور مبارک امام زمان اینگونه لطف وبنده نوازی خویش را برای سید جعفر مبذول میدارد دگر برای ما چیزی برای گفتن باقی نمیماند .

  42. هیچ کس نمیتواند حقیقت را کتمان کند
    اگر خواننده ونویسنده این نظرات اسماعیلیه هستند خود خبردارند که لطف امام زمان بالای خاندان نادری تا چه حداست که همیش حضور مبارک از ایشان بخوبی یادنموده که دوستان میتواند به فرامین مبارک مراجعه نمایند دریکی ازفرامین مبارک حضور حضرت امام چنین ارشاد فرموده است ( بنابر خدمات شایسته سید نادرشاه کیانی ,سید شاه ناصر نادر ، سیدمنصور نادری وسید سعدی نادری به حیث وزیر امام مفتخر گردیده است ) دریکی ازفرامین مبارک که خودم شنیدم حضور مبارک ارشاد فرموده است ( تاکنون هر آنچه که خاندان نادری انجام داده است مورد تائید امام است ) همه اینها سخنانیست که دوستان میتواند با درنظرداشت آن نظریات خویش را تحریر نماید
    ثانیا دوستان خبردارند که درجریان دیدار امام زمان درتاجکستان یگانه کسی را که حضور مبارک امام به حضور پذیرفت سید جعفرنادری بود این مثال های است که ما باید آنرا درنظرداشته باشیم زمانیکه حضور مبارک امام زمان اینگونه لطف وبنده نوازی خویش را برای سید جعفر مبذول میدارد دگر برای ما چیزی برای گفتن باقی نمیماند .

  43. بلی، اما مخالفين و دشمنان از کينه و حسد می ترکند. آنها بسيار حسود استند تا حتی که از فرمانبرداری امام زمان نیز سر پیچی می نمايند

    مثال بسیار زنده داریم از رئيس محرم که خود را سرپرست این مردم گمراه مخالفين می خواند. وقتی امام در افغانستان تشریف آورد، محرم در ميدان هوای به عوض که دست امام را بگیرد و ببوسد، چهره حاضر امام را می بوسيد. اين خود نمونۀ از بی احترامی و بی حرمتی در مقابل امام است

    انسانيت اجازه نمی دهد که چهره پدر ظاهری خود را ببوسی، بايد دستش را ببوسی. افسوس به حال اين گمراهان

  44. بنده از شما تقاضا میکند که بياييد همۀ ما و شما از خان آغا صاحب را که پير با پيرايه است پیروی نموده در ظل لطف امام زمان و خان آغا صاحب قرار گيريم. تصديق می کنم که اين عمل تان باعث خوشنودی امام نیز می گردد

  45. ای هم وطنان گرامی

    من تنها یک نظر دارم
    محترم سید منصور نادری شخصیت چندین بعدی منحصر به خودش است ، که سخن گفتن درباره بزرگمردی چنین شخصیت بزرگ جای بسای مشکل است زیرا این خود ضرورت به یک استعداد وشناخت عمیمق از جامعه را دارد
    نظرمن این است که جناب سیدمنصورنادری درکشور یگانه شخصیت با اعتبار ملی است که ما مورد اعتبار سایر بزرگان وسران اقوام ساکن درکشور است .
    گردهمای های چندین روز گذشته وانعکاس آن راجع به سهم فعال مردم اسماعیلیه درکشور میباشد ، جای بسا مسرت است که مردم اسماعیلیه چنین شخصیت صدیق وخدمتکار راستین امام را باخود دارد که میتواند صدای این مردم را از طریق قدرت مردمی به گوش جامعه جهانی رسانیده وسایر نهادهای سیاسی دگراز طرح های شان حمایت میکند

  46. بعضی ها بسيار نا انصاف استند، و کاملاً دروغ و کذب می نويسند. سيد منصور نادری که قلم از تعريف شايستگی وی عاجز است، چطور وجدان داريد که در مورد چنين شخصيت دروغ می گوئيد؟؟؟

    چرا در مورد شير باز حکيمی نمی نويسی که هر چه که لعنت به وی بفرستی هنوز هم کم است. بخاطر داريد که با استفاده از نام حاضر امام و مذهب اسماعيليه و بکس اسناد امامتی قاچاق می کرد و دستگير هم شد؟؟؟

    چرا در مورد او نمی نويسيد که يک حقيقت است که هرگز پنهان نمی شود؟؟؟ آخر چرا اينقدر بی انصاف استيد. لطفاً مردانه وار هميشه حق بگوئيد

  47. يا مرد باش يا در خدمت مرد باش

    هيچ جامعه و فرقۀ بدون داشتن يک رهبری قوی نمی تواند پيشرفت و ترقي نمايد
    سيد منصور نادری ثابت نمود که بجز از وی کسی ديگر شايسته تر نيست

    روايت است که “يک گله بز به رهبری شير بهتر است از يکه گله شير به رهبری بز” …… بناءً يا رهبر باش يا پيرو. يا مرد باش يا در خدمت مرد

  48. http://www.hujat.net

  49. Hey, the Author!!!!!!

    Come on write the fact about Sherbaz Hakim and Rayees Mahram and post in your blog…. and Hanif you plesae do some researches about the..

    It is very obvious that UNHCR report about Mr naderi is wrong….

    lets see how you perform…….

  50. Sherbaz Hakimi is a smuggler!!!!!!!!!

    Right??????????

  51. دوستان
    سید منصورنادری پیر ماوشماست واین را هم باید بدانیم که شیرباز حکیمی رئیس کنسول امام است ما باید ازنوشتن اینگونه نظرات خودداری کنیم

    با احترام
    برادرشما جان محمد
    بامیان

  52. جان محمد! وقتی که در مورد پير تو دروغ نوشته شده بدت نامد اما وقتی در مورد شيرباز حکيم حق نوشته شد، قهر شدي؟ چی گپ است؟؟؟؟؟؟؟؟؟؟؟؟؟؟؟؟

  53. دوست عزیز
    من ارادت راسخ به حضرت سید منصورنادری دارم اما من ازشیرباز کدام حمایت نکردم تنها گفتم ماوشما باید بخاطر نام امام از گفتن این حرف ها خوداری کنیم چراکه فردا مردم شیرباز حکیمی را نمیشناسد ماوشمار درنزد تاریخ محکوم میسازد که ریئس قنسول شما اینگونه است ، کشاندن چنین سخنان به مطبوعات کار درست نیست

    امید است درک کرده باشید

  54. I have read all the articals above here everone’s single written comments. I as an Afghan ismaili never see Sayed Mansoor Nadri as an spritual leader other then a politic leader. as we know that we afghans have respects for all sayeds, so the same to Sayed Mansoor Nadri.
    As far as I know Sayed Mansoor Nadri is not even an Ismaili, he follows Suni Mezhabz practises, and thats what he teachs to his Murids who are following him, and this is something that we have seen it in our own eyes. Lets give you guys and example, Sayed Mansoor Nadari had the control on Kayan for several years, did he make any Jamat Khana for jamat there to practise in our own way. we all know the answers.

    although I know here is not a right place where we should discuse our religious matter, but still we to mention that mejourity of our Afghan Ismailis are not the followers of Sayed Mansoor Nadari, and neither have any interest in politics.

    Mr.Khurasan,

    Naseri Khosrow was the one who spent all his life to find the right pad. and finally he did it so and then he became an Ismaili, But still no one consider him as an spritual leader. then why you people expect that Nadari is a spritual leader. who teaches you a wrong faith.

    Yahya and, Hanif thanks for the fact that you guys mentioned in your comments.

    Qaimuddin Bro, whether you are an emotional person or an unudcated. I understand your feelings though, we afghan Ismaily had faith, have faith, and will have faith in Ismailizim, but Nadari.
    lets not hide the fact that Nadari has never mentioned anything to the Jamat about Ismaili’s faith. he was collecting the Jamat Nazrana money, but do you guys know if you sent them to our Jamat community ever, or instead he waste that money to make Guest house like ( Woqab ) inspite of making a Jamat Khana to Jamat. plus if you have heard the news. our afghan council has denied that we do not have any links in politics. so that means whatever the Nadari did was for his own sicks and benefits.

    here Nadari has made one thing clear that he does not follow our Imam’s Farman, and neither has any respect for the Ismaili Community.

    Any concerns
    leave your comments I will get back to you.

  55. Qader Jawed
    Sherbaz Hakim is an Ismaili, and the Imam has given him the authority, and he follows whatever he is being told. if you dont have any respect of him, and for the Ismaily communit then you are not an Ismaili, why dont you guys become Nadari ?

  56. Zeenie, Kanji and others your names clearly show that you are not from Afghanistan, are you??
    You guys don’t know anything about our leaders, our culture and about our tradition, so it is not wise to comment on that, is it??? Please answer to my question!!!
    Have we ever God forbidden said something about your respected PEERS??? Indeed not, so why do you??? Don’t you guys think you are responsble to The Imam Of The Time by spreading haterate among the Ismailis, among our family??? What benefit you get by your haterate??? And you know how easily you become in sin of what you do??? I am sure you get a very hard response, either in the life, or the one hereafter be sure of that.
    To the other writters: How easily you show your stupidity by being a puppet insulting your family.
    Let’s all try to keep our unity and let not our enemies to get advantage of it!!!

  57. Wali jan read your history of survival before you comment about Sayed Mansoor Naderi. Listen to the none Ismailis of how lucky we were to have a devoted leader who safeguarded tens of thousands of our Ismaili brothers and sisters. You are either trying to cover the sun your two fingers, or you are a kid-born in West in a fanatic uneducated family. That day will not be far away that you deny your mother’s giving birth to you.

  58. Abdul jan, I really get mad whenver i hear or read that some of our Afghan Ismailis call Sayed Mansoor Nadri as an spritual leader which he isn’t, and those people are really educated like you who doesnt know the different between and spritual leader and politic leader. we have only on spritual leader and that our Imam of time. Abdul jaan you need to study alittle bet more about your religion.

    You are saying that he saved our Ismaili’s lives in Afghanistan. right! we saw that too when taliban cuptured Kayan he ran away and left thousands of Jamat behind him. I today solute to Abdul Ali Mazari, and Ahmad Shah Masood who gave their lives for their people instead of running away.

    anyways there are so many thing needed to be pointed out, but its a public area. lets stop it here

    Abdul Jaan iam pretty sure you belong to an educated family therefore i dont expect any harsh word again from you.

  59. Please improve your relgious education Wali and opposit party dont accept easily what khojas are telling you. knowjas know very well, how powerful and how honest Sayed Masoor and his family are that is why they are nervous, if we Afghans get closer to our beloved and holy Imam and reveal all secrates done by Khojas tritories will collaps down. Let wait for the time comes after election inshallah.

    Qiamuddin

  60. Kudos and honor to Abdul.

    I am an Ismaili from U.S. and lot of us don’t know the intricacies of Afghanistan specially after Russian invasion which has been more than 30 years and probably many of the people posting probably were not even born yet. Naderi may have become renegade but bottom line is due to the incendiary conditions the only person Ismailis could depend on was Mansoor Naderi as others have mentioned on the post that lot of Ismaili lives were saved atleast in Kayan Valley where he operates.

    Lets wait for the dust to settle and Afghanistan to stablise, these internal matters could be threshed out later on, I am sure Hazar Imam is very much aware of the internal situation thru the National Council.

    I want to thank Christian (author) of the post because of it collectively we have been able to shed light on it and have become more enlightened by the current Ismaili situation in Afghanistan which is very much layered and complex and is not an academic discussion but lot of lives of individuals and families are at stake.

    We as international Ismaili community is united and i wish and pray for the peace, harmony and prosperity for the ismailis as well as all the people of Afghanistan.

  61. I might be an uneducated person, but I haven’t got my answers yet. anyways its okay iam out of this discussion now. its not the right place to disguess such things . I am sorry if i hurt anyone’s feelings.

  62. ولی جان، کون خوده چور مياندازی؟؟؟؟؟؟؟؟؟؟؟

  63. Wali jan i am happy about your decision that you are out. When you say we have one leader you mean The Imam Of The Time, i am agree with you we all have one Imam, but don’t forget that we had Jamati leaders and we have. We have 7 steps if you might have read it in WaJJ-Din by Peer Nasir Khesrow. Our Khoja brothers and sisters also had Peers more than 100 years ago, but they did not say something wrong about them and still love them and it is a fact that they are Ismailis because of their beloved and respected PEERs. Wali jan when you say you only know the Imam it means you just became an Ismaili ( Direct Deposit). I prefere you do read the above mentioned book by Our Beloved PEER Nasir Khesrow.
    May He bless us all to come closer instead of going far away from each other!!! Ameen.

  64. To author: Christian Bleuer.

    You are still a student. (doesn’t matter if you are doing your PHD) but still a student.

    You are in your research phase.

    You obviously did NOT do your homework the way you’r supposed to, and you based all your assumptions and understandings on some other blogs that can’t even spell Ismaili. (I have gone through each and every single lines in those blogs/links that you provided, and I can assure you that more than 80% of the information provided, are totally false and misleading, and the sources which have been quoted from are also not credible at all. i.e. Hindokush and etc… ) and a few video clips. Try to do better job and take your information from a credible source. If you do your homework this way, I can assure, you will fail. And fail, you will.

    To all my Ismaili brothers/sisters:

    Don’t you guys get it? That’s what these people do. It’s their job. Haven’t we seen in the past? Please, first of all, lets not discuss our religious matters here in this blog. It’s not the right place. We are all following one Imam the rest is just mis-understanding which will be cleared Inshallah in the near future.

    May our beloved Hazir Imam give us all proper guidance.

  65. To author: Christian Bleuer

    Since you are a student and you are doing your research, I highly advise you to get a hold of the following book:

    “Kayan-i-haa Wa Ismaili-an” (Means the Kyanis and Ismailis)

    The author of this book is a non-Ismaili who used to work for United Nation and have met Sayed Mansoor Nadiri while he was trying to transport supplies (Medicine) to Kabul.

    You can find all the information you need (The important thing is that its provided by a non-Ismaili, and its unbiased. I also highly suggest my other Ismaili brothers and sister especially Wali, Amin, Javed, Yahya, Hanif and Iqbal to get a hold of this book.

  66. Thanks anony for recommending the book and
    @ Christian Bleuer, if any of you can get:

    1. Author of the book.
    2. Publisher of the book.
    3. ISBN #
    4. If it is in English or any translation available in
    english.

    Thx.

  67. Amin,

    Unfortunately, I don’t have all the information, you’ve requested.

    I had borrowed this book once from a friend. It’s available in Farsi. I am not sure if a translated version is also available.

  68. Brother Amin this book is in Dari/Farsi unfortunately it is not yet been translated in English. It is true the author of the book is Professor Mohammad Ibrahim Bamiyani ( Not an Ismaili) he was working with UN and he’s telling us about when he was incharge of the aid supply from Mazar-e- Sharif to Bamiyan as he is saying there was not any aid program to Bamiyan province because it was in control of the Mujahiden, but later it was approved by Prince Sadrudin Aga Khan special envoy of the UN in Afghanistan after requested by Sayed Mansoor Naderi and by his fully support the aid supplies reached to the needy and poor people of Bamiyan who had no food and was eating grass. And so many other stories of the Ismailis and devoted services of Sayed Mansoor Naderi.

  69. گزارش از حمایت پر شور مردم درۀ کیان ولایت بغلان از کاندیداتوری محترم حامد کرزی

    روز شنبه، 10 اسد 1388 کیان شهر بغلان حال و هوائی دیگری داشت جماعت گرد آمدۀ از زنان و مردان در گرد و نواح زادگاه و اقامتگاه رئیس حزب پیوند ملی افغانستان محترم الحاج سید منصور نادری که به هزاران تن میرسید جنب و جوشی ایجاد کرده بود که بیننده گان را به حیرت می انداخت همایش کم نظیر به حمایت از کاندیداتوری حامد کرزی که خود نیز در آن شرکت داشت و از جانب رئیس حزب پیوند ملی همراهی میشد و در هر گام از جانب مردم با سر دادن نعره های تکبیر و صلوات بر محمد بدرقه میگردید.

    شاید این اولین بار است که رئیس جمهور کشور با اطمینان خاطر از صداقت و وفاداری ساعاتی را در میانۀ باشنده گان کیان قرار داشت . آری در میان جماعتی انبوهی از مشایعت کننده گان که پیاپی میگفتند ، ما از کاندیداتوری شما حمایت میکنیم و فقط به شما رأی میدهیم و بعد از آن فریاد شادمانه و هم آهنگ مردم بود که بلند میشد تل دی وی افغانستان ژوندی وی زمونږ رئیس جمهور او ژوندی وی زمونږ د گوند مشر او رهبر الحاج سید منصور نادری .

    استقبال خود جوش و نظم و آرامش حاکم در این همایش و فعالیت دلسوزانه و چشمگیر کمیتۀ انتظامات انجمن جوانان حزب پیوند ملی اعم از دختران و پسران که با یونیفورم زیبائی خویش بالنده گی حزب پیوند ملی را تمثیل میکرد ، واقعتی بود که باید الگوی چنین همایشات مردمی قرار داد . این همایش که از ساعت 08:00 صبح آغاز و تا 1:30 بعد از ظهر همان روز ادامه داشت. صبر ، استقامت و برد باری زنان و مردان را در این گرد هم آئی صحه میگذاشت که در گرمائی چنین تابستانی تعجب آور مینمود.

    با حضور جناب حامد کرزی و محترم الحاج سید منصور نادری در لوژ بار دیگر فریاد خوش آمدید همگانی این جماعت با این شعار. که ما همه مقدم شما رئیس جمهور کشور و رهبر عزیز خویش الحاج سید منصور نادری را در درۀ زیبای کیان خیر مقدم میگوییم در فضاه طنین انداز بود . تا اینکه محفل با تلاوتی آیاتی چند از کلام الله مجید توسط محترم قاری عزیز الله نیک بین آغاز و متعاقب به آن ترانۀ خوش آمدید تهیه شدۀ تیم ترانه خوانان کمیتۀ فرهنگی انجمن جوانان حزب پیوند ملی به استقبال ورود با عافیت رئیس جمهور سروده شد که شور و هلهلۀ عجیبی در صفوف مستقبلین این همایش ایجاد کرد و بعد از آن در میان کف زدن ها و هلهلۀ شادمانۀ مردم محترم الحاج سید منصور نادری رئیس حزب پیوند ملی به جایگاه خطابه رفتند و با سخنانی رهنمود دهندۀ خویش در رابطه به ضرورت این حمایت حزبی و مردمی از کاندیداتوری جناب حامد کرزی و همچنان فیصلۀ هیئت رهبری ، متحدین سیاسی و ملی حزب پیوند ملی افغانستان به حاضرین تشریحاتی دادند. که با شور و اشتیاق از جانب شرکت کننده گان مورد تائید قرار گرفت. بعد از آن محترمه فرخنده زهرا نادری رئیس کمیته زنان و انجمن جوانان حزب پیوند ملی به میز خطابه رفتند و در رابطه با حضور فعال زنان در دفاتر ، مکاتب ، پارلمان ، ولایت و وزارت در زمامداری حامد کرزی ارقامی ارائه داشته اما آنرا بسنده نداسته و خدمات گسترده تری را در صورت پیروزی مجدد شان به ریاست جمهوری بمثابۀ یک دلسوز واقعی به زنان کشور تقاضا داشتند . و در پایان رئیس جمهور حامد کرزی خطاب به حمایت کننده گان خویش خطابۀ جاذبی ایراد فرمودند که مورد تائید و استقبال پر شور حاضرین قرار گرفت ناگفته نماند حضور حامد کرزی در این همایش از خود مانی بودن شان با مردم حکایت میکرد با ختم صحبت های ارزشمند رئیس جمهور کرزی محفل با دعائیۀ اختتامیۀ از جانب حجت الاسلام و المسلمین شیخ محمد عوض صادقی به آرزوی نجات کشور از مصائیب جنگ ، احیای وحدت ، وفاق ، فزون یابی اعتماد ذات البینی اتباع کشور ، تقویت اخوت همیاری و همدلی مردم پایان یافت . در ختم محفل رئیس جمهور و مهمانان همراه شان یکجا با رهبر و هیئت رهبری حزب پیوند ملی افغانستان ، برخی از نماینده گان شورای مردمی اسماعیلیان افغانستان و برخی از باشنده گان کیان در خوان ضیافتی پهلوی هم نشستند که گرمای پر از صمیمیتی را در قلوب جماعت اشتراک کننده گان ایجاد ساخت که در خاطره ها ماندگار خواهد ماند.

  70. Ismaili.net express their ideas about Sayed Mansoor:

    http://www.ismaili.net/html/modules.php?op=modload&name=phpBB2&file=viewtopic&p=30597&sid=4c28783d56d024679bf0269cd5efe235

  71. Karzai promises Afghan voters a brighter future

    AFP
    AFP South Asian Edition

    Jul 31, 2009 20:00 EDT

    President Hamid Karzai held his first campaign rally outside of the capital in a small village Saturday, promising a welcoming crowd a brighter future if elected this month.

    The leading contender in the August 20 elections addressed the boisterous rally of several thousand people alongside the spiritual leader of the Ismaili Shia sect that dominates this area, who told his followers to choose Karzai.

    Villagers held up placards of the president and shouted slogans such as “Karzai will succeed” at the gathering near a village six hours’ drive from Kabul, at the end of a rocky road in the relatively stable northern province of Baghlan.

    The leader of Afghanistan since the extremist Taliban regime was ousted in late 2001 is campaigning to win a second term in office.

    In this first official rally outside of Kabul, he outlined his three-pronged platform of peace, development and solid ties with the foreign powers propping up the war-ruined country.

    “Terrorism is still bothering us, is still destroying the country….for us the first thing is peace and national unity,” he said, referring to a Taliban-led insurgency that has this year become its deadliest.

    He said his second priority was to improve Afghanistan’s relations with the international community.

    “The third is development. We have built the roads and schools, the next thing is agriculture. We have to make dams to bring the water to the land and our electricity should be our own,” he said.

    Construction of one of the least developed countries in the world has been hampered by the insurgency which has brought more than 100,000 international troops to Afghanistan. Nevertheless, gains have been made.

    Karzai said that since the fall of the Taliban, whose five-year rule followed a devastating and ethnically charged civil war, the country had come together.

    “The big achievement for us in the last seven years is Afghanistan. After 30 years of war and misfortune, we have become a real house, a place of Afghan people,” he told the rally.

    “We have a better future, a developed future,” he said. “Every house has to have a new vehicle and your children educated so you are satisfied and comfortable.”

    Men, women and children — all Ismailis — started arriving in Kayan on Friday, crowding into a field wearing badges and flimsy baseball caps emblazoned with Karzai’s face.

    Colourful posters of the waving president plastered the mud walls of adobe houses, and Afghan flags flew along the roadways.

    Most people, however, said it was Sayed Mansoor Naderi — the local spiritual leader of the Ismaili sect headed by the Aga Khan — that they had come to see.

    Naderi, standing alongside the president, told his followers: “I request my national and political allies, my brothers and sisters and others … to support Hamid Karzai.”

    It was a message that had already been enthusiastically received.

    “As the people of Sayed Mansoor Naderi, we come for him because we are his people, his supporters,” said Saeed Mahmood Aga, a 67-year-old shopkeeper.

    “The people were asked to gather here. As he is supporting Karzai, we will offer support to him too,” he told AFP.

    Karzai leads a field of 41 candidates for the election, the second-ever democratic vote in Afghanistan’s turbulent history.

    Crucial to Karzai’s lead is his ability to secure the backing of still-powerful strongmen from the country’s war-filled past who bring with them large swathes of followers.

  72. When he arrived onstage, Karzai said he had come — in his words — to kiss the hand of Naderi.

    AFP
    AFP South Asian Edition

    Jul 31, 2009 20:00 EDT

  73. Abdul you made me to hit you back here again.
    I must say you are such selfish man. you think that you are the only one who knows about our religious, but not anyone else. I think the man Naderi your spritual leader thought you really good things I can see that the way your abusing everyone here, and critcising everyone on their comments.

    you know what bro, I am pretty much aware of my Afghan Ismaili Jamat history and so do about my religiouse and the issues we had in the past, and even now occassionally. i pray to Imam Zamam that he guides us on Surat-al_mustaqeem and bring unity in our Jamat.

    I am proud of our Baghlan province Jamat. if we see in the past they didnt know anything about their relgious, all the knew was that they were Ismaili, and the were giving thier lives away only for the name of Ismaili. inaddition they had thier freedom and kingdom in Kayan in term of Sayed Naderi, but the question raises. why they didnt have a Jamat khana to practise our own faith ? why they were going to Suni mazhabs masks and praying with hands close and practising thier way ? Were they actually guided the same by thier spritual leader ( Naderi ), or they were going themselves ? this is somehting we have seen it in our eyes.

    Guys there are so many other facts that need to be pointed out, and most of us awre of it, but as i said in my previouse comments lets not discuse anything here, we dont wanna make public our weeknesses.

    Abdul you dont have any answers for these questions. so please dont make me to write again here, and spread out all the facts we know.
    Your peers is not a spritual leader, so being as an Ismaili dont call him a spritual leader again. You said you read Wajj-Din, so practise it too.

    Peace bro

  74. Please for your own sake and for the sake of our religion do not discuss any religious matters here in this blog. It’s not the right place. Second, its not going to get anywhere, for its beyond the scope of these threads. If you guys are really interested in discussing these issues, please find a way to take them offline.

  75. Wali, the way you guys are praying at Jamahat Khana is the Sirat-ul-Mustaqim, it looks like discotic rather praying hall. I hope you understand.

    Regards,

  76. Dear Wali,

    You and your khojas’ are a black spot for the Ismailies. You have abused the name of Ismaili. You are not Muslims…. You are KAFAR AND GOMRAH

    Those who accept Sayed Mansoor Naderi as their leader and guide, they are real muslims first then they are Ismaili. They full fill are their Islamic Practicies, Namaz and Roza, then they do their special Prayer DUA, either at jamat Khana or anywhere else…

    Do you know that Imam has always emphasized on Islamic and Shariha rules….. Why you guys are not obeying…..?????????

    Hope you guys come to the right path .

  77. Dear Sohail,
    First! Thanks for your comment bro, but again what do you mean that they are real muslim and then they are Ismaili ? Ismaili is muslim, and we have our own religious practises. and you didnt even answer any of my questions.

    Second please dont call the man (Nadiri) as a spritual leader again.

    Thanks for your prayers though

  78. سلام برهمه دوستان

    من قسمیکه در نظرات خویش قبلا هم خواهش کرده بودم که باید درنظرات خویش عفت قلم را درنظرگیریم ، زیرا از یکطرف هر نظری انعکاس دهنده شخصیت نویسنده است وازطرف دگر همه میدانند که اکثر نویسنده گان این نظرات اسماعیلیه هستند .
    پس بادرنظرداشت این دوموضوع باید از نوشتن کلمات که باعث توهین به هرکسی باشد خودداری گردد وماباید با یک درک واقعی هر آنچه مبتنی برحقیقت باشد با دگر دوستان شریک سازیم نه اینکه عجولانه واحساساتی بعضی موضوعات که نظرات شخصی ماست آنرا به نماینده گی از مردم متدین ، شریف که درطول تاریخ الحمدالله باعزت ، حرمت وشرافت زیست نموده اند واین افتخارات جز مهم مسئولیت ماست که باید درحفظ آن کوشاباشیم ، تحریر نموده باعث ایجاد تفرقه ونفاق دربین این مردم شویم

  79. سلام دوستان عزیز

    اینجانب با تاید حرف های برادرما جانعلی میخواهم یک نکته را اضاف کنم که اگر شما جوانان میخواهید ادای مسئولیت درقبال جامعه ومردم خود نمایید بیاید از افتخارات که بزرگان ما درطول تاریخ بخاطر بقا وحفظ عزت این سرزمین ازخود به یادگارگذاشته است ، بادگران برادران هموطن شریک سازیم .
    خدمات مذهبی وفرهنگی بزرگان اسماعیلیه امروز مورد افتخار تمام جوامع اسلامی و بشری میباشد باید زا آنها یادکینم نه اینکه از بعضی موضوعات که اصلا حقیقت نداشته وحتی باعث نمایانگر ضعف مانزد دگران است ، درفضای آزادی بیان استفاده کنیم .
    اگر شما ادای مسئولیت دربرابر این همه افتخارا که ازبزرگان ماوشما برای جوامع بشری به ارث مانده است ، پس بیاید از علم وفضلیت قاضی النعمان بزرگترین عارف اسلامی ، که خود اسماعیلیه بوده ومولف کتاب دعایم الاسلام است ، یا از حمیدالدین کرمانی داعی بزرگ اسماعیلیه ، افتخارات خلفای فاطمی درمصر که یکی از درخشان ترین دوره های اسلامی درتاریخ ثبت است ، از دانشمند بزرگ یمگان حضرت حجت خراسان ، چهره شگفت انگیز تاریخ وبنیان گزار مکتب ارادت ، عزم راسخ وجانبازی درمقابل ایمان وعقبده حضرت حجت اعظم ابن صباح وسایر بزرگان ، شاعران اسماعیله ، نظرات ومعلومات خویشرا ارائه دهید .

    جای نهایت تاسف است که چنین بیخبر از همه این ها باشیم واکنون یکی ازاین بزرگان جناب سید منصور نادری است که تاریخ کشور ومردم اسماعیلیه با خدمات شایسته شان آزین گردیده واین گردهمای های انتخاباتی شان ورق دگریست درصفحات زرین تاریخ مردم ما برای نسل های بعدی به یادگار وسرمشق میماند

    والسلام
    شاولی جویا
    بند 2 پلخمری

  80. برادر عزیز

    شاولی جویا
    نظر شما واقعا نیک است و من خودم به صفت یک اسماعیلیه همه گفته های شمارا تائید نموده وازدگر برادران نیز چنین توقع را دارم

    با احترام

    علی هویدا
    شهر تورنتو کانادا

  81. Wali Jan!

    No one can ignore it. Sayed Mansoor is a spritual leader.

  82. Sohail! this is what I wanted to see.

    now tell me how is he ( Naderi ) even close to be a spiritual leader?…can you provide us any examples of his spiritual work ?

    Dude we have only one spritual leader, and thats our Imam-e-zaman, but if you call Naderi as a spritual leader then its still up to you. one can only guide you to the right path, but cant take you be force.

    Regards

  83. Wali jan
    You have showed everyone that you are not a man of your words. You just before mentioned that you are out, and i was happy about your decision, but unfortunately it seems that you are not the kind of person to accept the truth. There is one famous proverb in Farsi that says
    We can take a donkey to the water, but we can’t make him drink.
    You said you and your family are educated, but my friend your education seems not to be enough to find the truth. Next time check your spelling before you write.

  84. Wali jan what if i say your father is not your father and don’t call him father, and how stupid you are to tell us that don’t call him our leader. Everybody comments on you to stop this stupidity, but it is you who is not listening. You can’t prove the milk is black for the rest of your life.

  85. My dear brothers Sohail and Shamsudin please please don’t comment in general, i mean you can criticize someone, but not everybody. Our spiritual Khoja brothers and sisters may have had some misunderstanding, but it seems to be resolved and that was also because of people like Wali jan who tried to confuse them. We as spritual children of Mowla have no right to criticize each other in general
    Thanks,

  86. Thank you Dear brother Abdul. .. ! Mula Ali Says the person who teach me only one word is my Mula. Thus, Sayed Masoor has shown me the right path of Ismailism and kept our faith to our Holy Imam stronger. so, Sayed Mansor is My Mula and My God.

    Thank you very much.

  87. Dear all

    It is well cleared with all, that sayed mansoor is spiritual leader of Ismailies in Afghanistan according to the order of Imam of the Time.
    and it is not something that we say but it is being noted in our history, that no one can ignore this reality, if some one says any thing against of this issue it means that himself has no idea about our religious issues and has passed the life with ignorance.

    YAM
    haidar
    Garden , Karchi

  88. Dear Sahar

    Can u tell us that what dou mean by adding the Video clip of Abdullah?

  89. hey dear haidar

    She wants to say that she knows Abdullah

    sulaiman
    paris

  90. Haidar is right

  91. thanks dear qadam

  92. Dear all please come to talk about those issues that can a part of the discussions which is going on in our country

    Leave this that khujas are god or not.

    This is not the right place to talk

    whaid

    kabul

  93. Abdul in farsi we say
    Pashe Kale khar-o-yaseen khandan.
    if you think that you can have a second father thats up to you, but for me i have only one spritual father, and thats our Imam-of-time. yeah i decided first to not right anymore here, but you made me to do so, by your harsh words.

    Haider,
    Can you please prove this to us that when Hazer Imam said that Naderi is a spritual leader ?

    I have had so many questions in my previouse comments, but never got any answer of those questions ?

    Abdul would you please take sometimes and answer some of my questions, instead of being so rediclious.

  94. Exactly, Wali jan you got it. You don’t understand Yaseen Sharif. Everybody tells you something, but you don’t listen. Respected brothers Jan Mohammad, Shah Wali Joya and Ali jan whidah all told you to mind your language and be good with your family. It shows you can’t read Farsi…. My proverb was the answer to your questions.
    You answer my questions:
    1- Prove it that your father is your father in details
    2- What is behind the fact that your mother, possibly your wife and sisters are with you and are not in Saudi Arabia by now?
    3- Tell us where did you do your military services, if not in Ferqa 80, could you save your honour and manhood?

    By the way thanks brother Shamsuddin jan.

  95. Abdul
    So here you started abusing me now . be patient buddy, in farsi it says ( aqiqat talkh mebashad ) its not your fault bro, if you would have sisters and mother you wouldnt say anything to anyone.
    btw we didnt do our military service to Ferqa 80 Abdul jaan, and neither we were sending our sisters and mothers to Naderi’s house so that he and his sons could pick up the advantage.
    Just tell me one thing.
    you said that Naderi is your spritual father, then why did he get married to all Ismaili women, and how many wives does he have ? I am pretty sure that he is one of your brother inlaw too, thats why you are taking his side. [comments on sexuality removed]

    My applogy to everyone, but we all know that this is the truth.

    Abdul if you really love your fake father, then dont say anything more, [abusive language removed]

    Peace off buddy

  96. Dear Mr Bleuer,

    If you would like to post the r eality about Sayed Mansoor Naderi, then please contact me, your friend at khurasan.wordpress@gmail.com in order to provide you the first hand and reliable information with reliable sources.

    Thanks

    Khurasan

  97. Dear Khurasan,

    I have visited your blog http://www.khurasan.wordpress.com
    I appreciate your work.

  98. Mr Bleuer,

    Why did you removed your comment?

    and as per your comment, you are requested to edit the post about Sayed Mansoor Naderi and remove all these comments.

    Thanks

    Wafa

  99. Yes Bleuer,

    Where is your comment?????

  100. Author:

    Please do not remove the readers post. It degrades the integrity of your own blog.

  101. Mr Bleuer,

    Finally, u admit ur mistakes! thats good. its better to realise ur mistakes sooner than later.

    I hope u remove this article of urs.

    Thanks,

    BFT.

  102. Author,

    Please don’t remove readers’ comments or yourself’s.

    It’s not good for the integrity of your own blog.

    Annonymous

  103. Wali
    Your Parents are unfortunate to have someone
    like you at home barking all the time, they must have been tired. Your comments introduces your family in the public. BARK AS MUCH AS YOU CAN the more you bark the better we know about you. You show that you feel lots of pain in your comments that shows you and your family have suffered badly that you can not get ride of them.

  104. Mr. author we accept your excuse, but no more excuse!!!

  105. brother wali we feel sorry for you
    By the way are an Afghan?

  106. Dear educated Wali there is something in the name of ( Effat Kalam ) i don’t know if you have ever heard it at home? Ask someone.
    THERE IS NO POINT TO VISIT THIS SIDE ANYMORE, I HOPE YOU ALL AGREE WITH ME.

    THANK YOU,
    GOOD BLESS YOU ALL.

  107. I am wondering if any of our Ismaili brothers are running for provincial or local councils in Afghanistan election.

  108. Wali jaan well done,
    we all know the truth about Sayed Mansoor Naderi, and our community knows him too. you know in Dari it says ( Bala tuf koni da ruy khodat meya ya ) so leave it between us. dont spread it out.
    i dont know why these stupid people call the politic leader a spritual leader. i feel so bad hearing this too. being having our Imam of time how come they call some body else as their spritual leader.

    Wali jaan I suggest you not to talk to these guys, they wont understand. you know you can’t striaight the dog’s tail.

  109. See the fact is always bitter to accept.
    But guys tell me if iam not saying the truth ?

    didnt Naderi the one who you guys call your spritual father got married to his spritual childern ?

    instead of saying bullshids why dont you answer my question you slackers.

    Sharaf jaan you are right. thank you.
    Dumbi sak aij waqt rast shodani nest

    I just had a request not to call Naderi a spritual leader, but these guys started abusing me, and now they are talking about family, manner, and education. lol how funny its. i feel so sorry that you guys are being so educated going in a wrong path.

    Anyways you are right Sharf I think iam wasting my time here.

    Abdul its your show now. use the words that you have learned from your fake father.

  110. To Author:
    you have a right to remove the above photoshop ads as well as the above hijacked post in your name and you should remove it.
    Any blatantly foul post using indecent language should be removed, also any other unnecessary fillers above eg. typewriting practice.

    Thanks.

  111. absulotely Naeem.

  112. Salam everyone
    this is a big shame for all we afghans that we are discussing our issues here. please stop being so stupid,
    Sayed Mansur Naderi is a Sayed and we respect him, no doubt he did some service for our Jamat politically. and we all have a big respect for him, but the thing is that he is not the spritual leader.

    please guys try to learn the concept of a spritual leader. its not that anyone can get a spritual leader.

    hope i did not hurt anyone’s feelings.

    Regards

  113. Mr. Ter, I dont wanna abuse anyone here, coze i know you are also from one of our Ismaili brothers.

    anyways if you think he protect the Jamat then why did he run away when taliban were to capture Kayan ? and iam sure you are aware that what happend at the time while he was leaving all the Jamat behind him. Didnt the Jamat try to stop him ? and then some of his real murids like you were about to shoot those ppl, and help him out of there.

    guys iam trying to make polite comments, and get my answers, but you guys are showing you reality.

    why dont you guys answer my questions ?
    or you dont have any answer for these quetions ?

    everytime I am trying to be shut up, you guys screwing me again to say something.

  114. Wali jaan
    please stop asking questions
    if they would have any asnwer the could answer you before, and would prove that you are wrong, inspite they are bullsheding.

    i dont know what the heck is Christian Bleuer,

  115. Alizada I am agree with you. this was what i mentioned in my first comment, but these ppl dont understand.

  116. Dear readers,

    I have not deleted any of my comments. I have deleted comments by people pretending to be me. I have also deleted all the spam. And the racist comments about black men have also been removed (Ugandans or any other kind). And any comments on anybody’s sexuality have also been deleted.

    However, you are welcome to tell me that I’m wrong and an idiot, and to explain why.

    All the abusive comments are from two IPs in Houston and Toronto. In the future, any comments from these IPs will automatically go to moderation before appearing. If you are in these IP ranges and are not one of the racist homophobes who have been impersonating me, I apologize. I will check the moderation queue for legit comments.

    As for the person in southern Ontario, do you realize that you are not anonymous? You may be anonymous for me, but not for the police. You should really read the latest articles on how to be anonymous online. If you threaten me, I will contact the Ontario Provincial Police. They process IP warrants quite quickly in Canada.

    As for the people who have make constructive comments, thank you.

    Regards,
    Christian

  117. Author,

    Please visit http://khurasan.wordpress.com/ for reliable source of information regarding your research and do please make correction in your articles, where necessary.

    Regards,

    Bunyad.

  118. Thank you bunyad i visited the side.
    It is wonderufl.

  119. Thank you Bunyad i visited the side. It is wonderful.

  120. Well for a while actually you had me going Cristian. I thought you were for real. Anyways, its all good, I won’t lose hope.

  121. Mr.Christain thank you soo much for deleting all those abusive comments.
    they were using my fake name as well.

  122. To Author,

    It’s nice of you that you have removed all the spams and comments about personal sexuality preference,abusive and other comments of that sort. However, I have been going through all the above comments, and have come across a poster, who’s using alias name “wali”. Here, I am simply quoting a few sentense:

    “neither we were sending our sisters and
    mothers to Naderi’s house so that he and his
    sons could pick up the advantage.

    second thing all his sons are gay. be honest with
    one thing. Haven’t you had sex with Jaffer ?”

    This is what/how this guy “wali” is commenting about a “spiritual leader” of a nation. Whether he’s the a spiritual leader or not, is another thing and totally subjective. Nevertheless, a nation believes he is a leader. So, in my humble personal opinion it’s totally unwise to comment in such an abusive (the term i want to use) manner in public about a leader of a nation (be it spiritual or non-spiritual).

    So, why haven’t you removed this particular post? Which is also abusive and false and more importantly offensive.

    About your article:

    Your observation is pretty well, actually from the surface. However, you can’t really judge (especially about political/religious matters of Afghanistan) unless you really have a solid and deep knowledge of the people and the area. I am sure you did your research about the geo-political situation of Afghanistan, especially Kayan and Nadiri. But, how did you do your research? Of course the Internet. Am I right? Only about 20% of the news/facts are published on the internet about those matters and it started happening only in the last few years. Well, I think one can’t totally rely on the sources from the internet, for they aren’t complete and credible, especially about the matters of this flavour. And by false and/or offensive publication of information about a leader of a nation, the nation will feel insulted.

    I believe the following source will give you a different point of view about Sayed Mansoor Nadiri (may be in your nexy projrct):

    http://sayedkayan.com/links.html (Obviously, you might have visited this site. But, did you get anything from here, for its all written in Dari/Farsi?) I guess you need a translator, if you already don’t know Farsi. :-)
    http://www.hujat.net/
    http://sayedkayan.com/links.html (of course)

    To Wali:

    You have certainly questions, and I am pretty sure that there are answers to each one of your questions. You stated — once — in your previous comment, and I quot:

    lets not discuse anything here, we dont wanna
    make public our weeknesses

    I can’t agree more with you on this. But, yet you keep on going. If you really are interested in finding the answers to your questions, please find a way to discuss it offline (especially not in this blog, which is not an Ismaili community) or You can visit http://khurasan.wordpress.com/ to get all the accurate information about the man. Or you can discuss all your questions in http://www.ismaili.net, but not here in open public.

    In Dari we have a saying, which goes “Raz-i khaan-a ra ba sah-rah na-goo”.

    So, please try to understand. At the end of the day we are all obeying one Imam. Everything, you are thinking about Sayed Mansoor Nadiri is simply a mis-understanding. Werther he is a spiritual leader/political leader, what difference does it make to you, or the author? That’s what I don’t understand. But, don’t forget he’s a leader of a nation. And to insult a leader of a nation, the nation obviously without no doubt be angry and will say all kinds of things out of emotion and anger.

    Thanks in advance for understanding.

    regards,

    Bunyad.

  123. OK, I see now. This is a spill-over from a thread that was closed elsewhere. Someone sent me a link to Ismaili.net where this discussion was shut down by the admin after 14 comments (far less than here). He/she said: “This discussion leads nowhere. I soon will delete all post for and against.”

    I couldn’t agree more. This thread is closed. People have had 20 days to have their say. The level of homophobia, racism and bigotry was quite absurd. I’m traveling and I have better things to do than baby-sit this thread.


Categories

Follow

Get every new post delivered to your Inbox.

Join 94 other followers

%d bloggers like this: